By moving to podcasts, Harris and Trump are turning away from legacy media to spread their messages

recent YORK — Among the legacy information outlets that have arrive up vacant in their efforts to interview Kamala Harris and Donald Trump during the general election campaign: NPR, The recent York Times, PBS and The Washington Post.

Yet Harris chose to meet with Alex Cooper for her “Call Her Daddy” podcast and talk a little Bay Area basketball with the fellows on “All the Smoke.” Trump rejected “60 Minutes,” but has hung out with the bros on the “Bussin’ With the Boys” and “Flagrant.”

During this truncated campaign, some of the traditional giants of journalism are being pushed aside. The growing popularity of podcasts and their ability to assist candidates in a tight race target a specific sliver of the electorate is a large rationale why.

There are certainly exceptions. Harris spoke to NBC information’ Hallie Jackson on Tuesday and held a CNN town hall on Wednesday. But political columnist John Heilemann of Puck noticed what he called “an ancient, dying beast railing against the diminishment of its position and stature in the recent globe.”

“The campaigns have their structures and their media plans are very carefully thought through, even if we don’t consent with them,” said Sara Just, elder executive producer of the PBS “NewsHour.” “Obviously, we aspiration they will do long, probing interviews with PBS.”

Journalists consider that an significant service. Said Eric Marrapodi, vice president for information programming at NPR: “I ponder Americans deserve to listen the candidates have their ideas challenged.”

That sounds like a campaign staff’s worst nightmare, infinite opportunities for their candidates to trip up and have an unplanned narrative dominate the information pattern. And to what complete? Most legacy information organizations don’t have the reach they used to, and their spectators skews ancient.

For half a century, a “60 Minutes” interview near the election was considered a key stop for presidential candidates. But Trump shunned broadcast television’s most influential information display this year, and has criticized the way its interview with Harris was edited.

The former president has stuck largely to what he perceives as amiable venues with direct access to his base spectators, and continually feeds interviews to Fox information Channel despite grumbling he doesn’t discover the network faithful enough. Indeed, Fox has also proven significant to the Democratic ticket, which believes that appearing on its shows demonstrates willingness to deal with a unfriendly surroundings.

Harris’ interview with Bret Baier was so contentious that it became fodder for a “Saturday Night Live” parody. After her running mate, Tim Walz, was interviewed by Shannon Bream on “Fox information Sunday” earlier this month, the campaign sought and received a profitability engagement the next week.

“I was a little surprised,” Bream admitted to Walz. “What’s that about?”

In general, television networks don’t have the spectators they once did. CNN, for example, reached 1.24 million viewers per evening during the third quarter of 2016, when Trump first ran, and 924,000 this year, according to the Nielsen corporation. Broadcast networks are so named for their ability to reach a broad spectators; sometimes candidates require that, often they don’t.

The picture is more dire at newspapers, which collectively boasted 37.8 million in Sunday circulation in 2016 and dropped to 20.9 million by 2022, the Pew Research Center said. Candidates once submitted to tough interviews with newspaper editorial boards in the aspiration of winning an endorsement; now many newspapers don’t even bother making that selection.

For years, candidates have been able to target advertising messages with great specificity — a swing state, even competitive cities, for example. The media now offers more opportunities to micro-communication in the same way. Eager to shore up back among Black men, Harris appeared on Charlamagne Tha God’s influential radio program — CNN and MSNBC even simulcast it — and was interviewed by MSNBC’s Al Sharpton.

“The View” and Stephen Colbert’s “Late display,” where Harris has appeared, enabled her to talk to people less inclined to pursue the information.

Few outlets propose the chance to zero in on an spectators better than podcasts, which have essentially doubled in listenership since 2016.

The format is narrowcasting at its finest, said Andy Bowers, co-founder of the on-demand audio corporation Spooler Media. People who listen to podcasts often feel an intense loyalty to their favorites, almost like they’re part of a club of people with similar traits and interests — and a candidate has been invited into that club for a day.

“You’re talking to a specific spectators with a specific bent and frame of mind,” said Tom Bettag, a University of Maryland journalism professor. “That’s very helpful to somebody who is trying to avoid saying the incorrect thing at the incorrect period.”

For her interview with Alex Cooper on “Call Her Daddy,” Harris appeared on the most popular podcast for women. They discussed abortion, and one of Cooper’s questions sounded like a grooved pitch: “What do you ponder of Trump saying he will be a protector of women?”

On the “Flagrant” podcast, hosts asked questions about Trump’s children and how he felt during his assassination attempt. Host Akaash Singh interrupted Trump at one point to compliment him on how he raised his children.

“I ponder I like this interview,” Trump said. His appearance on the podcast, one of several efforts he has made to reach youthful men, has been seen by nearly 5.5 million people on YouTube alone.

Issues arrive up during these discussions, often mixed with the personal. On “All the Smoke,” the hosts began by asking Harris about the blind date where she met her husband.

Certainly not everyone is writing an obituary for traditional journalists and their coverage of campaigns. “I don’t view it as a large shatter that takes away from legacy media,” said Rick Klein, ABC’s Washington bureau chief. ABC’s chance to question the candidates came in the most community of forums, when the network hosted the only debate between Harris and Trump.

Of the 10 sources of campaign information with the most views on TikTok over the history 60 days, six were legacy information outlets, according to Zelf, a social video analytics corporation. They were ABC information, CNN, NBC information, MSNBC, Univision and the Daily Mail.

For a powerful information organization, there’s also a lot more that goes into covering a presidential campaign than sit-down interviews with candidates.

“I don’t ponder journalists should worry too much about access journalism,” said Mark Lukasiewicz, dean of the Hofstra University School of Communication and a former NBC information producer. “We should do journalism.”

David Halbfinger, political editor of The recent York Times, cautioned against drawing too many conclusions based on a campaign that was unusually short due to Harris’ late entrance into the race. The Times has followed the campaign aggressively with pattern stories, investigations and spot information coverage.

“It’s challenging to recognize what the lessons will be,” Halbfinger said. “For a long period, candidates have tried to leave around the information media. One way or another, the mainstream media does its job so I don’t recognize how effective that schedule is. But it will be an fascinating case study someday to view.”

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David Bauder writes about media for the AP. pursue him at http://x.com/dbauder.